Payday Loans & the Devil! Payday Loan Fans Gotta Get in the Trenches

From: problembear
To: Jer@PaydayLoanIndustry.com
Subject: The Payday Loan Industry

Lizard, “But in your blind rage you seem to forget not everyone in the payday loan industry are slime-devils.”

Problembear, “jer- anything you’d like to say about your industry targeting seniors and the disabled for their social security and disability checks?”

“you do realize that obama has your slimy industry dead zero in his sights, right after scum-bag bank CEO’s and crooked bail-out execs. what are you going to do with your time when he lowers the boom on your little band of cockroaches….run to the bahamas???”

“bet you will you big patriot you?”

“how much money did you make ripping off our servicemen and women in the military before the pentagon outlawed your sleazy asses down to 36%???”

“come on, you cowardly hypocritical sneak thief liar. tell us all about what a swell guy you are….”

Payday loan fans, the text above is an exact quote (including spelling and punctuation) from a Montana Blog focused on eliminating consumer financial choices in Montana. I entered the fray after accidentally bumping into this Blog while doing my daily trogging of web sites for updates on payday loan legislation. Here is the opening Blog statement from a Blogger referring to himself/herself as “problembear”:

“payday lenders beware; coming to a sidewalk near you…”

“by problembear

let’s just make it a date for around may 2010, shall we?

since it’s valentine’s day i want to be sure and let you know that we want to get close to your business with our signs and talk to a few folks….hope you won’t mind….i will try and stay upwind….so you get the full effect.

he’s stinky, he’s wide, he’s a problem….and he’s coming to a sidewalk near you….also a great big problembear shout out to all those montana legislators who voted in this legislative session to allow predatory payday and vehicle title loan businesses to continue to charge montana’s working poor 650% interest. we won’t forget you either. i promise…..we will visit your legislative districts to give a great big bear hug to all who join montana’s citizens; republicans, democrats, progressives and independents who demand regulation of this industry, and to stump for your more fair-minded opponents.

as of this writing there is still a slim chance that the republican members of the montana legislature will come to their senses and allow senate bill 397 to move forward but if not we would like to assure them that there will be a citizen based ballot initiative addressing this issue available for all of us to vote for payday/vehicle title regulation in 2010. watch for it…you can just smell it coming already can’t you?”

So payday loan fans, I decide to respond. Now I expect to get kicked and clawed up but I wade in there anyway!

My response:

Until you really need a small, temporary loan, you’ll never understand what access to the payday loan product can mean to someone in need.

36% APR rate caps ($1.38/per $100 loaned for 2 weeks) on payday loan businesses will certainly achieve your goal of driving us out of business.

So… where do you propose a employed person with a $200 car repair go so they can fix their car and keep their job?

Sure, some will have some friends left who will loan them the money until payday. Others may have family still willing to make them a temporary loan or perhaps even a gift. But there are 1000’s of consumers who lack this option.

So you want to take this choice away from those in need because you think YOU and our government know what’s best for the rest of us!

Wrong! This is America.

So now Payday Loan Fan, someone calling themself Klemz hits me back with:

Right. Brooks Street is lined with these places because a working class family occasionally has an unforeseen expense. What do you think we are, Palin boosters?

OK! No free marketers here but I’m game! I come back with:

If Brooks Street is lined up with payday loan stores it means there is a demand for the payday loan product.

If there were buggy whip stores on Brooks Street… Well, I think you get the picture.

Next up to bat is JC and someone called Oyster Perl:
Oyster Pirate

There used to be these things called “banks” where people went to get loans.


I think the payday loan industry creates its own demand.

Those who use the services are destined to keep coming back, as the excessive costs of the loans keep the victims ensconced in the system.

Mr. PayDayLoanIndustry, please give us hard data on your customers. How many are one-time-only customers (of the system, not a particular business)? How many are repeat? How many never get out of the system once the enter? What percent of your perennial customers’ income is handed over to you in the form of exorbitant interest?

Answer those questions, and you’ll see why you run a most hated and hurtful industry.

Alright, those are reasonable questions. Maybe JC will consider the other side of the issue. I’ll give JC the benefit of the doubt. So I answer:


JC, my point about buggy whip stores was simply that there was no longer any demand so they went away. If credit unions and banks ever develop a competing product that allows them a “fair profit” (whatever that is) payday loans will go away as well. While we’re on it, NSF fees and overdraft fees approach 2100% APR’s when computed annually.

Problembear, you’re right! Some payday loan customers abuse the product! They never get their act together. And some of the idiot, greedy payday loan operators in our industry bleed their customers like leeches. I denounce them!

Unfortunately, it’s human nature for a small percentage of our society. Bankers, wall street, politicians, the ruling members of the communist party… we see greed, corruption, and taking advantage of our fellow citizens exists in all walks of life.

Personally, I think if a 4 foot 300lb customer walks into an ice cream store and the ice cream store owner sells them a hot fudge sundae it’s a shame. Should that ice cream customer die later that evening of clogged arteries it’s a tragedy. But should government dictate whether the ice cream should have been sold in the first place?

JC, if you really want a truly independent evaluation of the payday loan consumer it’s available here:
The George Washington University School of Business “An Analysis of Consumers’ Use of Payday Loans”

Now Payday Loan Fan, while I’m writing the preceding response, Problembear knarls his teeth and slaps me with:

well, Jer, buggy whip merchants are not loan sharks. your business is a bunch of loan sharks preying on the working poor with unconscionable interest rates of 650% which in my book is pretty hard to defend as necessary to maintain a viable return on any business. under montana current law this constitutes a license for the wealthy to steal from those who can afford it least. it cripples them financially many to the point that they must seek assistance from the state and non-profits simply to shelter and feed themselves. i see no reason why montana should not regulate this business to the same 36% interest rates that congress forced your monstrously greedy bosses to charge members of the military. (after several years of stealing from our military personnel who were defending your freedoms. a more disgusting pack of jackals would be difficult to find than the industry you represent.

And Problembear posts this as well:


by the way i encourage everyone interested to click on jer’s link above his comment. his own website (based in Las Vegas no less) does an excellent job of making my arguments for me….definitely worth reading that first couple of paragraphs. talk about evil. good god.

Next up to bat is one of Problembear’s cubs, Binky Griptight
Binky Griptight

Jer, Following your logic we would legalize heroin stores.

You know that there is a demand for heroin. Yes, there are some who abuse heroin. And, yes, we denounce the dealers that continue to sell them heroin.

Maybe if the government regulated heroin dealers, only allowing them a fair profit (”whatever that is”) they would go out of business, too?

Then Payday Loan Fan, Frank comes to my aid with this post (minor spelling corrections made):

The problem with your theory Binky seems to be this, excuse or prosecute one thing by pointing to another. That doesn’t work out. If you aren’t  fortunate enough to ever need a payday loan, then good for you. However there are others that do. I used to know a couple who had to get a payday loan every month just to be able to eat that month. What bank is going to loan someone $100-$200, if you know of one please let us all know.

And of course I jump back into the wrestling match with:

Binky, legalize it; don’t legalize it. Heroin still exists and is bought and sold everyday. Actually the government has legalized it. It’s called methadone! And yes, methadone is abused.

You may very well shutdown payday loan stores and everything else you think should not exist, from legalized marijuana locations to check cashers, to pawn shops to car title loans, to strip joints, to cigarettes, to alcohol… but they will all continue to exist because there is a continued demand for these things.And a portion of the users of these products/services will abuse them and a portion of the “dealers” will abuse the consumers.

You can’t legislate these things out of existence. What you can do if you really care is launch educational programs for the consumers and tax the “dealers” so that you can fund these education programs. Of course the users are really paying because the “dealers” will pass the costs along to the users.

Let me be clear, tax the user of cigarettes and fund the education programs with this money. Don’t tax ALL of us to educate the cigarette abusers. Of course, substitute payday loans or alcohol or whatever for “cigarettes” above.

We all know the results achieved by legislating products/services out of existence. They go underground. Consumer protection doesn’t exist. Rates go up. In the case of “loan sharks” they break legs.

Finally, payday loan companies don’t hide their rates. The majority, by law, post their rates on their walls in 48pt fonts. Example: “We charge $15 per $100 loaned for a 14 day loan. This equals a 850% Annual Percentage Rate.

Ah, but at this stage JC has done some reading! He actually read the Washington University Study I gave him the link to above. JC HAS GOT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jer, thanks for the info. Here’s a few excerpts corroborating our disgust with this form of lending:

“Consider the 29.6 percent of customers that used 14 or more payday loans in the last 12 months. Assuming a two-week average term, 14 loans suggest that these consumers owed payday loans for over half of the year. That they owed payday loans for more than half of the year gives some credibility to the view that payday loans may lead consumers to ever increasing indebtedness that ultimately ends in default.”

“payday loans probably hastened some petitioners’ decision to file for bankruptcy”

Let’s take the case of the above noted 29.6% of customers who held loans for 28 weeks. If the average loan was “only” $100, then the customer has paid $32 dollars in interest by the time he pays back the first loan. After the third loan, he has paid enough interest to, in effect, not need to borrow the $100 again. By the end of the year, he has paid $442, assuming an average loan of only $100!

The logic of this tells me that after three 2-week long hundred dollar loans, the customer has been trapped in a system that continues to bleed his ability to meet his current needs.

With the end result being this;

“payday loans probably hastened some petitioners’ decision to file for bankruptcy”

Then there’s this statement:

“Although most payday loan customers remembered receiving information on the annual percentage rate, relatively few could recall accurately what annual percentage rate was disclosed.

with this unsubstantiated, and derogatory conclusion:

Apparently, the annual percentage rate was not sufficiently useful to warrant retaining the information in memory.

But I really have to laugh about this:

“This project was supported in part by a grant from the Community Financial Services Association of America.”

Um, the same CFSA that over half of the payday lenders belong to. The disclaimer might as well have read: “this study paid for by the interest on payday loans.” Nice to know that the CFSA has their own researcher in their pocket, and embedded in GWU and the Federal Reserve System.

But the kicker about Elliehausen is this paper he penned in 2005 attacking proposals to regulate the subprime lending industry:

“After rapid initial growth of subprime mortgage lending, a market has developed that seems to correlate credit prices with borrower risk. There is no evidence that it is a market with significant market failure. And, there is ample evidence that stringent regulatory proposals like those enacted in Georgia and North Carolina, and the even more stringent proposals advocated by the AARP Proposal, will impair the availability of credit in these markets without delivering the benefits promised to consumers.”

Yes, the payday loan shark industry has hired one of the Federal Reserve’s insiders–and one of the proponents of the “low-regulation” crowd of financiers–to write their lobbying materials.

Reading Elliehausen’s writings, I think that he, and others like him, are the ones directly responsible for the crash of our economy.

OH. Guess what JC?  I too have read the study. So I smack JC  back with this:


First, it’s really great to find someone on the other side who is willing to invest their time in attempting to get the facts rather than rely on the stereotypical rants I’m usually subjected to!

The study reveals 2/3 of payday loan customers used them “on average once per month or less” the past 12 months.

The study goes on, “even small expenses may cause financial problems and make emergencies a frequent event.” In such cases payday loans are expensive but still may be better than alternatives. Studies have found that access to payday loans may increase communities resiliency to financial difficulties, relax credit constraints without increasing delinquency, and reduce the incidence of financial problems.”

I think of more relevance is this, “Nearly all payday loan customers evaluated their own experience with their most recent payday loan positively and believe payday loan companies provide a useful service.”

Regarding the funding of this study, the researchers needed access to consumers who used the payday loan product. CFSA is made up of the biggest and the best payday loan companies that, among other things, insist on full disclosure of all fees, encourage consumer responsibility, no-cost rescind consumer rights, Fair Debt Collection Practices, no criminal action for NSF’s, support balanced regulation, extended consumer payment plans, Internet state licensing and much more.

CFSA was one of many groups on both sides of the issue who helped to fund this study conducted by George Washington University.

JC, page 36 states, “Just 2.3% of customers said they did not know the finance charge on their most recent new advance.” I have many credit cards. Please don’t ask me to quote the interest rates on them. I have a car loan. Again, I don’t know the interest rate. I even have trouble remembering the interest rate on my mortgage. Let’s be fair here!

Page 55 states that Chapter 7 bankruptcies INCREASED SIGNIFICANTLY in Georgia and North Carolina AFTER payday loans were banned in these two states. Additionally, in Hawaii where maximum payday loan limits were increased, complaints about collection behavior of debt collectors and lenders declined significantly relative to other states.

Regarding, “Payday loans probably hastened some petitioners’ decision to file for bankruptcy” this is not exactly noteworthy. 33% own their own home with a mortgage. 75% have a credit card. Only 35% “had some college.” All these issues and the others discussed “probably hastened some petitioners’ decision to file for bankruptcy.”

Page 45 states, 7.8% had loans of 14 or more weeks. You seem to have missed this, JC.

Finally, “The survey evidence indicates that most customers used payday loans as a short-term source of financing. They used payday advances a small or moderate number of times during the year, typically for less than a month at a time.”

JC, it is GREED that has caused our temporary financial problems. Greed by everyone including banks, wall street, realtors, brokers, mortgage companies, and US. Yes, you and me homeowner/investor who rode the real estate rocket up and are now riding it down.

Thanks for your thoughts, JC! Most interesting!!

But Payday Loan Fan you guessed it! Problembear has come back out of hibernation and is riled up big time! Problembear has me all figured out.

jer- the only reason you dropped by tonight is someone in montana who is a member of your hellish circle of demons has expressed worry about the upcoming vote in the montana legislative chambers being affected by the disgust that all fair-minded montanans feel toward your industry.

you have lost oregon, arizona, ohio, georgia, north carolina, new hampshire…..the list goes on to include the rest of the 15 states that your businesses have either lost in the legislature or through citizens initiatives. every vote is by at least 70 to 30 in favor of either abolishing your industry or capping the interest rates. someone is worried and that makes us happy. the more you comment the more worried those slime devils you represent must be.

you make no mistake. if the republicans in our state legislature fail to do the right thing over this issue then we citizens will do exactly as the post above says with a citizens initiative and you will lose. there is no support from the public for preying on the working poor. none. but by all means keep posting. it tells me how desperate you all are.
and that makes this bear very happy indeed.

So, I claw my way towards Problembear…


I “dropped by” because I’m most interested in the rights and freedoms of Americans to choose how they want to live, what they want to buy, whether they can discipline their own children, how they want to vote, whether they want to smoke, can they maintain their right to a beer…

I do not like others to have the right to reduce my choices!

You still don’t get it! You cannot legislate our desires away. You do not know what’s best for all of us.

As for “my fears”, again you are in error. I, and other free thinking Americans ALWAYS do well; in any environment.

I NEVER expected to change any minds here, I’m certainly smarter than that. I simply enjoy exchanging ideas and learning from everyone, even the janitor.

I’ll drop by again! It’s been fun :o)



Oh, I forgot! Those states you mentioned lacking payday loan stores… Do you really think the residents of those states no longer NEED short term financial help just because people like you, who think they know what’s best for all of us, legislated away the right to a payday loan?

Those folks still need payday loans and those folks are still getting payday loans. They get them via the Internet from offshore operators who could care less about full disclosure, privacy protection, and licensing. And these payday loan offshore operators charge $30 -$40 per $100 loaned versus $10/$100 in Florida or $15/$100 in California.

Finally, what percentage of those voting against the payday loan product even knew what a payday loan was? It wasn’t the payday loan consumers; the folks who sometimes need a payday loan. They didn’t vote against balanced payday loan regulation.

Man, I FEEL GOOD!!! Thanks again, Problembear!

Now comes Lizard, one of the cubs:

Jer: if you are interested in learning about different models of loaning people money, you should check out the idea of micro-loans. A man from Bangladesh started a bank called Grameen Bank based on this concept, and won a Nobel Peace Prize.

Now Payday Loan Fan, it just so happens I’ve read the Yunus book and of course I’m very interested in micro-lending:


His name is Yunus. I read his book. Actually, although Grameen Bank originated in India he has sponsored some experimental loan facilities in New York and New Jersey.

One of the interesting things he revealed in his book was that the women groups to whom he lent money paid the loan back at a MUCH HIGHER rate than the groups formed by men.

Additionally, the increase in financial status achieved by the women debtors transferred immediately to the children in the form of immediate enrollment in school and improved nutrition.

The few male debtor groups that succeeded typically spent their profits on themselves!

Great book and a Great Read!!!

And of course Problembear is still thrashing around the campground…

jer- elections are a tough thing to win when you’re the devil. keep posting. you look more evil with each comment. and more desperate….

Payday loan Fan, do you have a product or service you’d like to put in front of several thousand movers and shakers in the payday loan, car title loan, check cashing or pawn industry?

You can! Visit: PaydayLoanIndustry.com . Our rates are on the page.

So, believe it or not Payday Loan Fan, I do post again:

Thanks Problembear! Another insightful, illuminating comment.

Personal attacks always make more sense than a discussion of ideas.

We both want what’s best for, not only America, but the universe. We simply disagree about how to achieve it.

You stink but I love ya, Man!

Now, Problembear is obviously really getting his fur up! Problembear grabs me by my  jugular…

jer- anything you’d like to say about your industry targeting seniors and the disabled for their social security and disability checks?

you do realize that obama has your slimy industry dead zero in his sights, right after scum-bag bank CEO’s and crooked bail-out execs. what are you going to do with your time when he lowers the boom on your little band of cockroaches….run to the bahamas???

bet you will you big patriot you?

how much money did you make ripping off our servicemen and women in the military before the pentagon outlawed your sleazy asses down to 36%???

come on, you cowardly hypocritical sneak thief liar. tell us all about what a swell guy you are….

Man, Problembear is pissed off!!!!!!!!!!!!

And meanwhile, Lizard steps back into the ring! Have I actually succeeded in cracking open the door to critical, fair minded thinking?

I am impressed, Jer. You are arguing your case quite well. Maybe the question should be why the need exists for your industry’s products in the first place. Obscene greed, a growing class divide, blatantly inept oversight, stagnation of wages, off-shoring manufacturing capacity…

Your industry, parasitic as it often is, exists for a reason. Maybe that line of inquiry is worth investigating further.


problembear: don’t over-estimate the good intentions of the new president and his economic team.

So I acknowledge Lizard’s effort to consider  both sides of the payday loan issue:

Wow! I think I detect an open mind here :o)

Actually, I really honestly wish there was zero need for payday loans, car title loans, check cashers…

But I know, having used one back in 1997, they do serve a need; hopefully a TEMPORARY need in anyone’s life.

What I rail against is folks whose goal is to reduce my choices.

Oh no!! This REALLY RILES UP Problembear!! One of Problembears’ cubs is growing up! Starting to think for himself! This is not good!

lizard – your comments seem to be more aimed (as usual) toward your own nihilistic and overly pessimistic views and the ego-boosting dissemination of your thoughts.

we on the other hand, are trying to defeat an industry with tens of millions of dollars to lobby our legislature to keep their immoral and bloated parasites feasting on our poor.

if you would like to help in this noble cause you are more than welcome. if not i sure wish you would get your own damn blog instead of attaching yourself to my posts and getting in the way.

when i am engaging a slime devil i suggest you go elsewhere with your advice. it is not welcome. it is distracting and annoying. my views about the obama changes i anticipate are my views. when i need more advice from you i will be sure and call you on the bat phone meanwhile, butt out because you appear to be sidling up to this guy and encouraging him.

Now it’s all Problembear and the cub. I’m outa here… It’s late but it’s been fun: Watch Problembear and the cub roll around in the dirt…

problembear, in my humble opinion, payday loans are institutions that reflect a larger problem, one that Obama’s economic team appear incapable of addressing because of their elbow-rubbing proximity to these greedy assholes at the top of the pyramid.

I understand your passion in regard to this issue, but telling me to butt-out of a comment thread because my opinions don’t adhere to your noble crusade is pretty ridiculous.

Also, sorry to respond to your enemy in a civil manor, seeing as how he was trying to make his case, civilly I might add. I am glad you are fighting the good fight against parasitic institutions that prey on vulnerable people, but in your blind rage you seem to forget not everyone in the payday loan industry are slime-devils.


lizard- i understand you want to take the entire sandbox of the us government and tip it over so you can make it into the super idealistic nirvana of your dreams, but i live in a blue collar world, have blue collar instincts that distrust dreamers as people who tend to get in the way when there is work to do. so i hope you will forgive me if i just want to fix one problem at a time without interference. is that asking too much from you. wouldn’t a blog about worldwide economics or macro politics be more germaine to your meanderings.

i’m just trying to use the materials at hand to nail this one sheet of drywall up so the wind and rain doesn’t continue to lash us (the poor) spare me the intricate blue prints you have envisioned for your castle in the sky.


and no, not all humans who engage in this business are intrinsically evil- but the way they are fighting our efforts to give some relief to the working poor in montana is…

and it would be nice if you could stop giving comfort and solace to the enemy here, so i don’t have to waste jet fuel and side-winders on you. i need them for the slime-devils.


you want to take the entire sandbox of the us government and tip it over so you can make it into the super idealistic nirvana of your dreams, but i live in a blue collar world, have blue collar instincts that distrust dreamers as people who tend to get in the way when there is work to do wow. you may live in a blue-collar world, pbear, but you blog in a cyber-world where an exchange of ideas is supposedly the intent. is that the intent? do I now need blue collar credentials to respond to your posts? what kind of class bullshit is that?

so, let’s summarize: while you speak for “the poor” I am either an idealistic dreamer living in a castle in the sky, or a nihilistic pessimist engaged in ego-boosting my thoughts.

I’m confused. maybe taking out loans to purchase that fancy education was a waste of money.


very possibly so. the purpose of this post is to illuminate legislators that it would be in their and montana’s best interest to pass SB 397 and regulate pay day lenders and vehicle title loan lenders so that they will stop preying on our most vulnerable citizens. it is not to assuage the hurt feelings of someone who is flamed for getting in the way. so yes if you cannot understand that simple concept, perhaps so. meanwhile i hope you will excuse me while i ignore your comments from now on. there is work to do, and you keep getting in the way.

Now Payday Loan Fans, if this wasn’t so sad it would be funny! This thing is already WAY TOO LONG so we’ll follow up in a week or two with further thoughts AND YOUR COMMENTS!

Drop Problembear a line. I know Problembear would love to hear from “the Devil” once again. Montana Blog

So what do you think Payday Loan Fan? If you read this long winded diatribe PLEASE just click on the link and let me know you read it! If you want, just put “Read It” in the subject and hit “send.” And if you have a comment it would be much appreciated!


Comments ( 4 )
  • admin says:

    Carl, you make way too much sense!

    I agree, the popularity of payday loan type products is a reflection of the plummeting wages of our society. Read:
    What’s ALICE Got to Do With Payday Loan Customer Demographics

    This is not simply a phenomena occurring in the USA. Payday loan businesses are growing faster in Canada, the UK, Australia and others, than they are here.

    I emphasize again, insist on easily understood FULL DISCLOSURE of fees and interest on ALL financial products. Then allow the market to determine which products and services win.

    It’s not rocket science!

    Again Carl, thank you for your elegant response to the “problem-bears” of this world.


  • CarlS says:

    Wow. Problembear really needs to get a life. Typical American citizen that knows nothing about how the financial system works in the US. For this type of person it’s OK for banks to create their own money out of thin air and be bailed out by the government with his personal money when their poor business practices get them in trouble, but it’s not OK for a private citizen to lend out their own money for a fair profit. Typical know-nothing US citizen who thinks treating the symptoms instead of the disease is the answer to everything. Here’s what I’d suggest that problembear lobby his legislators for instead:

    1) The number one reason that the payday loan industry is growing and thriving is low wages for average Americans caused by a variety of factors (not least of which, the legislators he seems to love) that would require a book to explore fully. So how about we start at the other end of the scale by trying to lessen competition in the job market so wages for average Americans will rise as a result.

    2) How about working to provide low income Americans with access to capital to enable them to start their own businesses and compete on a level playing field with the mega-corporations he seems to admire so much? Then they wouldn’t need to worry about finding someone to give them a job.

    3) How about insisting through the legislation he seems to love so much that corporations train their own employees instead of relying on taxpayers to train them? You know, like it used to be?

    4) How about enacting laws that make it illegal for corporations to discriminate against less educated citizens that, none the less, have the required skills, experience, and aptitude to perform a particular job but lack the $75,000.00 (or more) piece of paper (Read: degree) funded by his tax dollars? This would have the side benefit of reducing the number of questionable educational institutions all sucking off the government teat for money to loan to millions of citizens to obtain their product (And enriching themselves exponentially) thereby, reducing the need for their questionable product, thereby reducing the cost, thereby reducing federal and especially state budget deficits? IMHO, the education system in this country is at least in the top 10 of the biggest taxpayer funded scams going. Right up there with the defense, finance, insurance, pharmaceuticals, and health care systems.

    I could go on and on but like I said at the beginning, it would take a book. I think anyone reading this gets the picture. (I hope). The bottom line is: The fish stinks from the head down. So why not start at the top and work your way down instead of starting at the bottom and trying to work your way up? Payday lending is a symptom caused by everything I’ve mentioned in this post (and more that I’ve probably not even thought of yet). It’s a symptom that would die a natural death (Like buggy whips) if the focus of people like problembear was on the actual people and industries that are the cause of the disease.

    End of rant.

    Carl S

  • HonestJohn says:

    Had any of these Montana idiots ever needed a payday loan they would understand there need.

    Not everyone can go to mommy or daddy for a few bucks to fix the car to keep their job!

    These fools just don’t get it!

  • Mike the Man says:

    These Montana guys are idiots. They will not consider any reasoning but their own convoluted, twisted logic.

    What a waste of time, Jer!

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